__Interview________________________
Portraits in Courage
A group designed to help homosexuals lead chaste lives launches a
new effort to reach the general Catholic population.
In 1980, with the encouragement of the late Cardinal Terence Cooke of New York, Father John F. Harvey, OSFS, founded Courage: a program for Catholics who experience homosexual temptations. Explicitly affirming Church teaching on the immorality of homosexual acts, Courage encourages its members to develop the virtue of chastity. The organization now boasts 100 chapters, in 60 American dioceses. Courage is also active in Canada, England, Northern Ireland, the Philippines, Poland, New Zealand, and Australia.
This summer, Courage has introduced a pair of high-quality videos, explaining the purpose of the organization and offering the testimony of several individuals who have found help through Courage. The videos can be purchased through Ignatius Press (which publishes Catholic World Report), or by calling 1-866-BE CHASTE.
What is the purpose of your video campaign?
Father John F. Harvey, OSFS: The purpose of the video is to send a message to Catholics in America—and non-Catholics as well—that there are people who are trying to live a chaste life. Courage is a serious program teaching people how to be chaste, and stressing especially the idea of interior chastity, or chastity of the heart. That means not merely refraining from exterior acts, but learning to purify the affections as well. That's our principal reason.
In these videos, we have 10 people who have been willing to relinquish their anonymity and appear, so that people can identify who they are. These people are willing to say: "I'm a person who has a same-sex attraction, who is now leading a chaste life. I struggle at times, of course, like everyone else. But I am working to lead a chaste life."
Is this the sort of resource that a pastor might want to have, so that he can recommend the videos to someone who is struggling with homosexuality?
Harvey: Yes, very much so. The program is divided into two parts. The first part is entitled, "Into the Light;" the second is "The Cry of the Faithful." The first part concentrates mainly on the individuals, talking about how they came into the light—talking about their personal conversions. The second part has people like myself, Dr. Richard Fitzgibbons, and others, talking about the issue. Then it ends up with everyone talking together.
A tape is only a bit over 27 minutes; it could fit into a half-hour period. So someone could show one tape in one session, the other in the next session, and have the whole thing done that way.
We are aiming at high schools and colleges. We are also aiming at parishes and adult-education programs.
Do you encounter resistance from publishers and broadcasters inside the Catholic world?
Harvey: So far we haven't met any resistance. We encourage reviews, and we've had some good reviews and statements of support.
In some circles, what you are producing might be classified as "hate literature," since it encourages people to recognize homosexual acts as immoral.
Harvey: Yes. Let's make a distinction. We are really reaching out to the Catholic publications; we aren't trying to reach the secular publications. I haven't sent any copies to the New York Times, or people like that. I've sent the program to various Catholic magazines and newspapers.
So you are starting "at home," so to speak?
Harvey: Yes, we're starting at home. We'll probably get the "hate literature" complaints later, when people start to realize what we're doing. But I have learned, from long experience, not to mess around too much with the secular press on this issue. You almost invariably come away with a negative review; they've stacked the deck against you.
Of course we work in Protestant circles as well. We have very good relations with Exodus, which is a comparable group working with Protestants. We certainly let them know that we have this video.
Do you have the sense that the general trend of our culture is working against you?
Harvey: Oh, yes. The general trend of our culture is working against us—and especially within Catholic circles! I regret to say it, but the people who give us the greatest trouble are working with other Catholic organizations, who don't accept what we are trying to do.
I prefer not to mention the names of these organizations, because as soon as you mention names, you open yourself up to a libel suit. In our newsletter I have written about how Courage differs from other organizations. The only group I mention is Dignity, because Dignity is really outside the Catholic Church. Back in 1987, at a conference in Miami, they declared that if two people love each other faithfully, having homo-genital relationships—that is to say, sexual intercourse — was morally licit and acceptable. At that juncture many American bishops said that they could no longer have a place in Catholic parishes.
Without mentioning any names, we can point out that there are some groups that express their support for gay and lesbian Catholics. Are these the groups that give you difficulties?
Harvey: I think you can safely say that Courage has grave difficulties with the term "gay," because it gives a false identity to the person.
The term "gay," in practice, has come to refer to someone who is actively homosexual, and perhaps militant—whereas "homosexual" might refer to someone who has same-sex attractions, whether or not he acts on it. Is that accurate?
Harvey: That is quite accurate. The term "gay and lesbian" has the connotation of not only having this condition, but also wanting to live out the lifestyle. The term "homosexual" does not have that connotation at all.
What we have tried to do, in recent years, is to emphasize the term "person." So we speak of a person with same-sex attractions. The Vatican always refers in documents to the person with homosexual inclinations.
The terms "gay" and "lesbian" bring about a false identity in the person. He begins to think that the most important thing about him is that he is gay. He is a creature of God, and he may be a brother of Christ—a member of the Mystical Body.
I have never met anyone who chose to be homosexual. It's something that they discover at some point in their lives. That's why I have great empathy for them, and try to give them help.
You mentioned earlier that you worked with Exodus, the Protestant group. Isn't it true that they are much more inclined to encourage "reparative therapy," and other efforts to help people overcome homosexual inclinations?
Harvey: They are; that's true.
We try to make it clear in our literature—because we find the facts are often distorted—that Courage is a serious program for the practice of chastity of the heart. We are not in the business of therapy. We are not out to change people's orientation.
If people want to do that, I tell them, as a moral theologian, that they have every right to try. They should seek help from competent people in that regard. But we don't make the Courage meeting a forum in which people talk about changing their condition. A lot of Catholics think that's what we do. That's not accurate.
So when I say that we work with Exodus, I mean that we agree on certain principles. Both groups agree that homosexual activity is always seriously immoral, by the very nature of the act. As the Holy See says, these acts are "intrinsically immoral." They agree with us that we need a program to help people get away from these acts, and learn to be chaste.
Exodus goes beyond that point. They want a program, psychological and spiritual, to help people move out of the condition. That is something that we do not do.
Now you must understand, too, that in Courage we have had people who did come out of the condition—sometimes without having any therapy at all. And we have people who have gone to therapy, and come out of the condition. We are not opposed to efforts to change the condition. We're just not in that business ourselves.
Some critics of Courage question the wisdom of bringing together people who have a homosexual orientation. They point out that when alcoholics meet in support groups to talk about their condition, they don't meet in bars. When you bring together people of the same sex, are you creating temptations for them? Would it be more prudent for these people to stay away from each other, and mix with heterosexuals?
Harvey: Years ago that objection was thrown at me. When I was asked to work with priests and brothers who had homosexual difficulties, I tried to get the Archdiocese of Washington to approve the work. They sent me to consult with psychiatrists, and at first, three different psychiatrists rejected my idea, on the grounds you have just explained: these men might be attracted to one another, and they might become involved with each other, and bring great scandal on the Church.
Well, from 1978 to 1990, I worked with priests and brothers on retreats. Later, when I overcame some objections, I began working with Courage meetings. Over the years I've worked with hundreds of people. Only in one case did somebody try to "do" someone else in the group. In Courage, from 1980 to the present moment, only one man has approached someone else in the group.
I think I would know if there were other cases. Things like that tend to come out in a group, when someone has a quarrel, or when someone talks to me privately. I suppose it's possible that other incidents occurred, but I don't have any evidence of it.
Moreover, there is a good reason why it doesn't happen. The reason is motivation. If people have been involved in the homosexual lifestyle, and they are trying to reform, they will join a group that will help them to be chaste. They know that, if they want to have sex, they can go outside the group. They know what the purpose of the group is, and they know that this sort of activity could do a great deal of harm to someone else. So if they are going to fall, they won't fall within the group.
I am not saying that that everyone who joins the group becomes perfectly chaste. We've had people join the group for a time and then leave, and go back to the homosexual life. We've had people in the group who were doing well and then they fell—usually it's masturbation, rather than acting with someone else. We've had people who have fallen with someone else, outside the group, and they come to a meeting and talk about it.
The Courage group is made up of saints and sinners. These are people who are seriously intent on chastity, but they have human weaknesses. Some of them do fall, but they get up and come back.
The struggle for chastity is a universal one.
Harvey: That's a very important point. You see, the reason why we stress the need for chastity is that it is a divine command. It binds everyone, whatever his state of life: if married, to conjugal chastity; if single, to celibacy; if in religious orders, to consecrated chastity through vows.
On the other hand, there is no moral obligation that I know of that says a man must change his condition. You can't posit that obligation.
First of all, we don't know whether it's possible for an individual to come out of that condition or not. We have no infallible psychological means, or even probable means, that will always lead a person—or even very probably lead him—out of the condition. The reliable statistics are that one out of three comes out of the condition—even when you are working with the best of help, and the best of intentions. That's why we don't stress that.
With anyone—heterosexual or homosexual—isn't one of the keys to keep the fight as far as possible for the castle walls? In other words, one tries to eliminate sources of temptation?
Harvey: Oh, yes. Let me explain something about how I developed my own thinking. At the beginning I only talked about chastity. Now I talk about interior chastity. Why? Because St. Francis de Sales, in his Introduction to the Devout Life, points out that when you are having some type of serious weakness, the first thing you have to do is purify your affections for it. Often people stop committing a sin, but still have the affection for that sin. People just avoid external acts; St. Thomas Aquinas calls it continence. That is an imperfect virtue, as he points out. If one doesn't cleanse his affections, he's still going to have these temptations all the time. So there is a much greater likelihood that he will fall into some form of rationalization—in this case, with regard to his sexuality. That applies whether he is heterosexual or homosexual. The biggest temptation is—for men, particularly—pornography. "I'm not doing anything wrong, I'm just watching it," he tells himself. And then pornography leads almost invariably to its twin sister, masturbation. Even then, as time goes on, his rationalization is that this is better than an act with another person. Pretty soon the person wants the act as well; that's how it goes.
We have to be concerned, first of all, about the heart, and taking care of affections. We have to teach him honesty—honesty and avoiding the occasions of sin. It is, as you say, a matter of keeping the fight away from the castle walls.
Going in to a gay bar, for example, for a Courage member, doesn't make any sense at all. He's bumped back to where his temptations were. He'll usually say, "Well, they won't have that effect any more." And maybe they won't. But who says that is going to be true?
How do you purify affections?
Harvey: There are several ways of purifying affections. The first and most important way is through prayer. A person needs to pray over his situation, and make it clear to almighty God in his prayer that he does not want this particular kind of pleasure, and that he wants to turn away from it.
Through prayer, you come to look at your own motivations. People tend to rationalize their actions; through prayer you learn to be honest with yourself. Of course part of prayer is a good examination of conscience. Examining your conscience at night, to see where you are, is something that most religious orders have as part of their rule, and a lot of lay people do the same thing.
If you are immersed in a sinful life—regardless of what the sin is—you are saying that the first means of escape is prayer. But St. Teresa of Avila teaches that prayer and vice are incompatible.
Harvey: St. Alphonsus Liguori and St. Teresa both say that.
I think I need to make it clear that when I talk about prayer, I am talking about prayer of the heart: meditation, reflecting on one's life in the light of God's grace. Prayer of the heart leads to chastity of the heart.
But again, if you are immersed in sin, doesn't there have to be some sort of spark—something that impels the individual toward prayer, when he is not really disposed to prayer?
Harvey: Let me tell you what I think it is that happens.
When young people get involved in homosexuality, maybe they're 19 or 20. They go around to the gay bars, and meet all kinds of people. They think that they have the best of two worlds: they can have sex without any responsibility—unlike the heterosexual man who must contend with the threat of pregnancy. That's how it begins, and for a while they enjoy it. Then as time goes on, they begin to wonder what they are doing with their lives. They begin to realize that their lives are empty. They suddenly realize: "What am I doing? I'm 40 years old. My brothers and sisters are married and having children. What am I doing, running around all the time? Where is it leading?"
So what do they do? They say, "Let me get away from this."
A good example of this way of thinking is conveyed in the wonderful book by Ray Morrison, Beyond Gay. He came to the conclusion that he had money, he had a steady lover, everything seemed all right for him, but he felt empty. Someone suggested that he should pray, and he laughed at that. Yet about two months later—as he tells in his book—he was taking a shower and as he finished the shower he suddenly said, "I think I'm going to pray." He knelt down beside his bed, and he started with the classical prayer: "Oh God, if you are God, will you listen to me?" By the time it was over, he believed that God was there, present, and that God cared about him.
So there is a divine initiative sometimes—as in the case of Ray Morrison. But often the individual doesn't see it that way; he sees only that he is empty. That's usually what happens after a few years.
Some people, of course, remain in the lifestyle—often because of negative factors. Many are bitter about the way they were brought up. Some use the Church as a scapegoat: they might cite a priest who was not nice to them, perhaps. Their bitterness keeps them from conversion, unfortunately.
And it's not just their bitterness. If you constantly beat yourself down, if you show your self-hatred constantly, if you are constantly feeling remorse and shame, you will reach a stage where you think that you are not worth anything, and no one cares about you. You begin to think that no one can love you—not even God. That's the road to hell.
Is it fair to say that the ultimate objective—whether you're homosexual or heterosexual—is to recognize chastity as a positive virtue rather than just a matter of restraint?
Harvey: Yes. Chastity gets some very poor press. Chastity has to be described and defined.
We are not purely spiritual beings. The angels have no problem with chastity, but we humans do. All of us, except Jesus and the Blessed Mother, have troubles of this kind. We all need God's help.
I see chastity as a gift from God, for which you have to pray. It's a gift from God through which you learn to have control of sexual desire. It's a form of charity; it's respecting the other person, and respecting yourself. When we see it as a form of love, then it becomes more powerful.
That's why I keep talking about motivation, all the time. You need to have the right motivation: prayer to God, respect for your neighbor, respect for yourself. And you need to accept yourself, in your weakness and your limitations. The acceptance of self is very important: not a mere intellectual acceptance, but acceptance in the heart.
When you accept yourself, and recognize your weakness, that acceptance involves a victory over pride.
Harvey: It really does. When you accept yourself as made by God, as a child of God, a brother of Christ through baptism—when you accept yourself in that supernatural way, in the way of the Gospel—that is a very important step to accepting your own dignity, and recognizing how precious you are before God. It's how to get across to people that God loves them! If they really believe that God loves them, they'll begin to believe that they can love themselves. But it's not easy to get them to believe that.
What you are saying applies with equal force to heterosexuals.
Harvey: The things that I've been saying about purification of affections apply equally, across the board, to heterosexuals.
I've had people get up in the audience, when I'm giving talks, and ask why I don't start a group for heterosexuals.
Well, do you have a good answer?
Harvey: My answer is that we have to keep Courage separate, because there are people who come wanting privacy and confidentiality, and they are not ready to deal with heterosexual people.
Somebody who wants to get into this field should do the same thing with heterosexual men and women. I don't have the time to do both. But it is really the same struggle for everyone.
Back to Catholic World Report August/September 2001 Table of Contents